Psychic vs Medium & Life After Death | Philip Dykes & Kerry McLeod

Be As Sceptical As You Can: Philip Dykes & Kerry McLeod on Mediumship, Grief and Proof of the Afterlife

When Phil Dykes first stood up and told his family he could speak with the dead, they stopped speaking to him. He came from a Methodist family — his father a preacher — and in their eyes, for about two years, he simply worked for the devil.

He says it was the making of him.

Watch or listen to the full episode on YouTube, Spotify and all podcast platforms. [ https://youtu.be/wud3wzqadz8?si=qvN216qn7FbkaS4Y ]

From the UK, With a Camera in Their Faces for Years

Phil and Kerry joined us on #creativetalk all the way from the UK — evidential mediums, ministers, tutors, authors, and now Telly Award winners for their documentary Evidence of the Afterlife. We've sat in their workshops over the years, so it was a genuine honour to share them with you. The Telly judges come from the BBC, Netflix and Shutterstock, and there were thousands of entries — which made the silver award all the more humbling for two people who, by their own admission, said no to the film several times. They never wanted to be the spotlight. They insisted the spirit world be the centre of it, and that director Robert Lyon tell three stories at once: mediumship, spiritual development, and the grief none of us escape. Both of them lost a parent during filming — Phil's dad, and Kerry's mum.

Psychic vs Medium — The Difference Most People Get Wrong

This is the question Kebrasca and I get asked constantly, and Phil and Kerry draw the line cleanly. A medium works with your loved ones who have passed — bringing back names, jobs, hobbies, mannerisms, the odd peculiar phrase that clinches it, undeniable evidence delivered over several minutes. A psychic reads the living: the person still walking this earth, their work, relationships, decisions, wellbeing.

And here's the part that reframed it for me: they urge people to develop the psychic ability first. The mechanism is identical — except the living person can confirm a yes or a no, where someone in the spirit world can't. So if you learn to read cleanly while you've got that feedback, you learn how a yes feels, how a no feels, how to follow a life story — and then, when you flick the switch to mediumship, it's far easier. The psychic skill is the training ground that makes a steadier medium.

Why a Reading Won't Take Your Grief Away

The most important thing they said, they said about grief. A reading has its place in grief — but it cannot remove or bypass it. As Kerry put it, grief is like losing weight: you can't pop a pill. It's a process that has to be lived. A good medium makes that very clear, because anyone can hand a heartbroken person comfortable reassurance; it takes integrity to tell them the connection is real and the grieving is still theirs to walk.

What live mediumship can do, though, is something I watched them do on stage here in Melbourne. The healing isn't only the recipient remembering an old memory — it's the medium and the loved one in the spirit world meeting inside the same memory at the same moment, so the bereaved person isn't just remembering, they're making a new memory with the one they lost. As a medium, Kerry says, you don't simply receive information and parrot it. You live it. It has to make sense to you first — emotionally, not just factually — and Phil spoke about feeling the full weight of some passings, the kind you can't un-feel, before finding the right words to deliver them with care.

"Be As Sceptical As You Can"

Ask them what they'd say to sceptics and the answer is disarming: be as sceptical as you possibly can. It's in the film. Both of them came to this scientifically minded — Kerry set out to prove she couldn't do it; Phil spent his early years travelling the length of the UK convinced mediums were reading radio waves or comparing notes on the phone, trying to debunk the whole thing. Every contact, to this day, has to prove itself to him before he'll speak it.

Then there's the story that stops everyone. Years ago, Phil agreed to a university experiment. They blindfolded him, put ear muffs on him, and walked him onto a stage to demonstrate — no sight, no sound, at one point not even sure if he was facing the audience or the wall (Kerry quietly saved him from stepping off the edge). The information he brought through scored around 96% accuracy against a computer database. The punchline: once the other mediums saw what was involved, most of them pulled out.

A Spiritual Home Without Walls

The throughline of their whole story is trust in guidance. Around October 2019, separately, on different days, they each came away from sitting in the power with the same strange image: presenting to a group of people through a screen. They built three online courses on the strength of it — and when lockdown hit, they were the first to run a five-day online course (ten days in), the first to demonstrate mediumship online, the first to hold a divine service online. The spirit world, they're careful to say, gives ideas and pointers, never removes free will. Years earlier they'd been told a phrase — a "spiritual church without walls." Eight years on, that's exactly what they have: a global community of spiritual minds with no physical building.

As a couple in business, like us, their secret is almost mundane: they were friends first, and they protect that. Respect and friendship are the two baselines; they disagree plenty, and that's where the ideas come from. "If we do what we love, everything else follows" is the line they keep returning to. Phil credits Kerry — coach, psychotherapist, the one who finishes what he starts and opened his eyes to a level of compassion he didn't grow up with. And one of their truest lines, which we've adopted: N.O. doesn't mean no — it means New Opportunity.

Some guests teach you a technique. Phil and Kerry remind you why the work matters at all — and why the right answer to "is any of this real?" is to go and find out for yourself.

— Amber

In This Episode

• 0:00 Intro
• 2:05 Last week: Charles the energy healer
• 6:21 Mind Body Spirit Festival, Melbourne
• 10:06 Introducing Phil Dykes & Kerry McLeod
• 13:48 Seeing their story on the big screen
• 14:47 Winning a Telly Award
• 17:22 Three stories inside the documentary
• 20:06 Both lost a parent during filming
• 22:18 Phil's Methodist family who thought he "worked for the devil"
• 27:03 Kerry's story: a low point after her daughter's birth
• 28:42 Mediumship isn't all "lovely and fluffy"
• 30:51 The demonstration that blew Phil's mind
• 32:45 Mediumship is an ability, not a gift
• 35:08 Psychic vs medium, explained
• 38:18 Why learning psychic first makes a stronger medium
• 41:15 The healing power of live demonstrations
• 44:22 The medium doesn't just receive — they live it
• 46:42 Why a reading won't remove grief
• 49:06 "Be as sceptical as you can"
• 53:41 Blindfolded on stage: the 96% experiment
• 56:00 Can anyone develop mediumship?
• 1:03:20 Their courses and how to join
• 1:11:44 Working as a spiritual couple in business
• 1:13:52 First to go fully online, 10 days into lockdown
• 1:26:02 What being a spiritual minister means
• 1:33:55 Consciousness: the last frontier
• 1:38:06 Phil walks out of his job at 11am
• 1:43:57 First steps for developing mediumship
• 1:48:32 Where to find Phil & Kerry

Find Phil & Kerry at philipdykesandkerrymcleod.com and their courses at mymediumship.com. Watch the documentary Evidence of the Afterlife on Apple TV. Book a reading with Amber at glowbyamber.com or explore Kebrasca's healing work at kebrascaking.com #creativetalk is live every Thursday at 5PM AEST — where consciousness meets commerce.

Lightly edited for readability. #creativetalk with Amber & Kebrasca King, featuring evidential mediums Philip Dykes & Kerry McLeod.

[01:43] Welcome

I'm Kebrasca King and I'm Amber King — welcome to Creative Talk, where we blend commerce and consciousness. Another week, another exciting interview, with some incredible people joining us all the way from the UK today. They've gotten up early just for us — we're very grateful. But first, let's talk about what we learned last week with Charles.

[02:05] Last week: Charles

Last week we had Charles, an energy healer with multiple modalities, who shared his knowledge around Pellowah and the big energetic shifts happening on the planet. He's so full of energy, and he has a way of making complicated things easy to understand. What struck us was him describing his modality where he can't talk at all — no music, no sound, no candles — it's so quiet the person just lies there and he wants them to fall asleep, because that's when the energy goes deeper. He shared a story about a client who had to move her appointment four weeks later, and that morning was diagnosed with breast cancer — and Charles said, "That's why you've come to see me today." Divine timing. We've volunteered ourselves to go and snore on his table for a healing and a Pellowah session, and we'll film it.

[06:21] Mind Body Spirit Festival, Melbourne

Coming up, the Mind Body Spirit Festival returns to Melbourne over the King's Birthday long weekend, and we'll both be in the psychic reading room — four days in a row for the first time. Pre-book your slot; that room sells out every year. It's our second year completing the Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane tour, and Melbourne is always next level.

[10:06] Introducing Phil & Kerry

Now to our guests, joining all the way from the UK — and they've just become award-winning for the documentary they released this year, Evidence of the Afterlife, available on Apple TV. Let's play the trailer... That trailer is epic. Welcome, Phil and Kerry — thank you for being with us so early in your morning. (We are well, thank you for the invitation.) For anyone wondering who they are: mediums, spiritual educators, mentors, authors, award-winners — and a couple in business, like us.

[13:48] Seeing their story on the big screen

What was it like seeing your journey become a film? A little surreal. When Robert Lyon — who produced, directed and filmed it — said we'd premiere in a cinema, we thought it'd be a small thing; it was on a huge screen. Very humbling. We were clear the film shouldn't be us-focused — the spiritual journey is the centre. It was a few years of having a camera in your face 24/7, but Robert put everyone at ease, and he's said he could make two or three more films from the footage.

[14:47] Winning a Telly Award

It's surprising — the Telly Award judges are from the BBC, Netflix and Shutterstock, and there were thousands of entries, so to find out it won a silver award was incredibly humbling. At the beginning we said no to the film several times; we were uncomfortable being the spotlight. It had to be the spirit world, and Robert did that — he tells three different stories: mediumship, development, what spiritualism is, and the story of grief none of us escape.

[19:25] The book — and losing a parent each

You've also released a book of the same name. It explains the mechanics of being a psychic versus a medium, and the story behind the film — including that Phil's dad passed during the making of it, and Kerry's mum passed too. So there's the journey of a family individually grieving, some funny parts about being followed by a camera crew, what it's like to be a student of mediumship, and a little of how we became mediums.

[22:18] Phil's story — "I worked for the devil"

For me, mediumship was taboo, especially in my family — Methodists, my father a preacher. To stand up and say I look at the spiritual side of life was a big thing; I lost contact with much of my family for about two years, because in their view I worked for the devil. I was the black sheep. But those years let me develop, and with the film, some family have watched it and said, "We never understood what you did — you're so good at it." My family are engineers; they like processes, so being questioned forced me to find ways to explain it. As we grow spiritually, it's nothing fairy — it's living with purpose, gaining empathy and compassion for everything living and everything that has been.

[25:26] The man who first noticed Phil

It was a gentleman called John Gilbert who walked me into it, at Horwich National Spiritualist Church in Bolton. He kept looking at me, and afterward said he noticed the qualities and the energy I carried. That first night, the medium was meant to read many people but couldn't get away from me for 45 minutes — the spirit world had a point to prove: they wanted my attention.

[27:03] Kerry's story

For me it was just after the birth of my daughter in 1996 when, like many women, I hit a really low point. In that low point I began to look at the bigger questions, my sensitivities increased, and I sought out a spiritualist church. I met a gentleman called Jock MacArthur who became a large part of my journey. I did private readings, and from 2004 until I left Scotland in 2021 I was involved in running a spiritualist church. It's not until we wrote our book that we realised how many peaks and troughs there were.

[28:42] Mediumship isn't "lovely and fluffy"

Mediumship isn't all lovely and fluffy. Sometimes it has tough parts where we ask hard questions of ourselves — but that's the making of us as mediums. You're dealing with people who are grieving, and sometimes with traumatic or uncomfortable passings. It's not for the faint-hearted.

[30:51] The demonstration that blew Phil's mind

I was early 20s when it became prominent. I saw a gentleman called Glenn Edwards demonstrate, and I was blown away — full names, addresses, walking people through their lives. A lady next to me said, "Wasn't that boring?" and I thought, were we in the same room? Then I trained with Mr Paul Jacobs — what he doesn't know about mediumship isn't worth knowing. He was strong with me, and I'm ever so grateful.

[32:45] An ability, not a gift

Mine came in my 20s, and it is hard work — it's an ability, not a gift. You balance the formal training, the mechanics, with personal development, because when we're open to life's lessons we can use them in our mediumship. A "working medium" works with the public, but it doesn't mean they're the finished article — we top up our ability like any doctor, nurse or coach. The day you think you know everything, the universe shows you something else.

[35:08] Psychic vs medium

Mediumship is about your loved ones — factual, undeniable evidence: the relationship, the name, jobs, hobbies, memories, mannerisms, all brought together over several minutes, with a message directly from them. The psychic is about the living person — everything they've done, thought, experienced and aspire to is within them. We strongly urge people to develop the psychic first.

[38:18] Why psychic first makes a stronger medium

It's the same mechanism — except a living person can tell you you're right or wrong, and someone in the spirit world can't. So if you learn how a yes feels, how a no feels, how to follow someone's life story in the psychic, it becomes much easier to do that for someone you can't see. Many readings have both. Both inspire and empower the person in front of you, and can bring healing, peace and real insight.

[41:15] The healing power of live demonstrations

(Kebrasca:) I watched you both on stage in Melbourne give profound evidence — you could see people reliving that love and lifting their grief in real time. (Kerry:) When somebody is joined in that memory, mediumship has healing power because it brings the recipient and the communicator together in the one memory at the same time — and it lets them make new memories with their loved one, which is what we're all looking to do.

[44:22] The medium lives it

There's a perception that we just receive and get told things. We don't — we live it. It has to make rational sense to us before we speak it. We feel the empathy, the resonance of what it means to that person. You can't do this work and stay the same person. One contact: a child who hid in a pile of leaves, and a parent who drove over them — to feel that emotion, that guilt, and still find the right words, that's the responsibility of the medium.

[46:42] A reading won't remove grief

A reading in a demonstration or private setting will not make the grief go away. Grief is like losing weight — you can't pop a pill. It's a process that must be lived. A reading has its place in grief, but it can't be used to bypass it. You see that in the film — we talk about our own loved ones who've passed. We're not immune from grief. (Phil:) I wanted my dad to see the film, to say, "Look Dad, this is what I do" — but he passed before the end of it. I know in the spirit world he feels that pride.

[49:06] Advice to sceptics

Be as sceptical as you can — it's in the film. Question it beyond life itself and find the truth for yourself. Every contact has to prove to me they exist with credible, logical evidence before I speak. Communication happens three ways: the spirit world present, the medium on form, the recipient open-minded. We can't judge what's "good" evidence — some of the smallest things have been world-changing to the recipient.

[50:13] Phil tried to disprove it

My early journey was to disprove that I could do this and that mediums existed. I thought everyone had a script, that they phoned each other. I travelled the length of the UK to test it. (Kerry:) People assume mediums were always believers — not true. We're scientifically minded. I came into this to prove I couldn't do it, challenging every piece until I had to accept there was more to it. Science is getting closer to describing how consciousness could create these experiences. For the sceptic: have your journey, don't rule anything out, and don't go in with specific evidence in mind — what you want to hear might not be what your loved one wants to give you.

[53:03] One chance to send a message

Imagine having one opportunity in your whole life to give a message to someone you love. Are you going to give them what they think they want to hear — or what they really need to hear? That's why we stay open-minded.

[53:41] The 96% experiment

A true (and funny) story: a UK university asked me to take part in a scientific experiment. Several mediums agreed; I went first. They asked, "Do you want to know what you're doing?" I said no, I'll just do it. They took me into a room, blindfolded me, gave me ear headphones, and walked me onto the stage — then said, "Now you're going to demonstrate." I couldn't hear anybody. They'd set up a computer in another part of the UK to test how much of what I brought through was correct. Half the time I didn't know if I was facing the wall or the audience; Kerry saved me from falling off the stage. The result was around 96% accurate. The funny part — after seeing what was involved, the other mediums pulled out.

[56:00] Can anyone develop mediumship?

Yes — and the deeper answer is everyone is psychic. Hundreds of years ago people had an innate spiritual intuition — which plants to eat, where to find food. The world got quicker and we lost the need for it; it's only when we slow down in nature that we appreciate it. Sensitivity is double-edged — it brings awareness of others, including those we can't see, but also vulnerability. Not everyone will travel the world working for spirit, just as not everyone who can play piano becomes a concert pianist — but anyone who trains can learn to communicate with their own loved ones. (Kerry:) There are many abilities — psychics who work with police, psychometry, divination, inspirational mediums who work with music — and healing, which for me produces the greatest mediums: those who just let the power move through them.

[1:03:20] Their courses

We have a variety of classes. Pre-recorded "self-paced" courses for beginners, explaining jargon like "blending" and "being in the power," and specialist ones on clairvoyance, clairaudience, becoming a healer or an inspirational speaker. Live evening classes (early morning for you Aussies — and you'd be surprised how many get up at 4 and 5am to join). Friday-evening personal development classes that help mediums unblock and get unstuck. Five-hour deep-dive classes once a month. And one-to-one mentoring. There's something for everybody.

[1:07:17] You can't develop spiritually without developing yourself

We teach people to do private readings and demonstrations properly. But you can't develop spiritually unless you develop yourself. Mediumship happens on three fronts: theory, practice (which brings experience), and reflection on what you've learned. The seeds you create in thought are your future. Consciousness is one of the last frontiers — the boundary of our mind is the limit of what we can produce. If people didn't have imagination, we wouldn't have the light bulb, the telephone, the train.

[1:09:02] Kebrasca's testimony

(Kebrasca:) In your one-on-one workshops in Melbourne, you helped my mediumship grow through major blocks. I remember getting my first "no" in your class and thinking I was toast — and now a no is nothing. (Phil:) The no is programmed into us. N.O. stands for New Opportunity. We're so proud of people like you.

[1:11:44] Working as a spiritual couple in business

We met, married in 2019, then lockdown locked us together — and we formed a relationship that works. (Kerry:) The spirit world had a huge hand in bringing us together; any earlier or later and the circumstances wouldn't have allowed it. In lockdown we focused on how to make the best of it, and a mission statement derived from what spirit shared. We have the odd disagreement and different opinions — that's where the ideas come from. We take every individual as unique; we don't teach one-glove-fits-all. (Phil:) I'll have an idea and pass it to Kerry to put into action — if I don't move with an idea, the spirit world gives it to someone else.

[1:13:52] First to go fully online

We were the first mediums to do a five-day online course, ten days into lockdown — people said it would never take off. First to do an online demonstration, first to do a divine online service. Now no one can imagine life without online.

[1:20:32] Pros and cons of working together

When we first worked together there was no business or personal relationship — a course organiser brought us in once a year. We became friends, and that's the basis we always work from: respect and friendship. We disagree on business and on beliefs, as we should — that's how the ideas come. The con is that sometimes all we talk about is work, so we take time out, go for a walk, and agree not to talk about it (doesn't always work). (Phil:) Kerry completes me — an excellent coach and psychotherapist, and the friendship. She's opened my eyes to a level of compassion and family values I didn't grow up with; I came from a hard Lancashire upbringing. As someone said reading our book: you get to see the two of us as you are — no airs, you don't hide anything, you're real people.

[1:26:02] Spiritual ministers

We undertook a two-year program with a metaphysical organisation in the States — the Sarasota Center of Light in Florida — encompassing spiritism, spiritualism and other faiths, with the common denominator of do no harm, be your best, unconditional love. It lets us be there for people of any faith when they're grieving, and to do ceremonies, funerals, christenings and weddings where nobody is segregated. (Kerry:) Being a medium doesn't make you spiritual — mediumship is an expression of spirituality, just like art, dance or music.

[1:33:55] Consciousness, the last frontier

(Kerry:) Areas we'd love to explore again: music and colour, and the altered states and physical mediumship we set aside at the spirit world's request. (Phil:) For me it's consciousness — I don't like labels, because they form boundaries. We listen to everybody, because anyone's insight we can add to our own by challenging it. We've started a second book exploring consciousness and what creates the human being who then becomes the medium.

[1:36:48] How spirit guidance shows up

All of the above — meditation, walks, insights. We've been directly told things, but more often given ideas and pointers, never removing free will. Years ago I had the thought of working for spirit full-time and heard, "We will provide only what you need."

[1:38:06] Phil walks out of his job

It came in a bizarre way — I literally walked out of a well-paid job at 11am one morning, no real plan, never looked back. From that moment the phone rang, and as the spirit world said, they provided everything we needed.

[1:38:46] Visions of online teaching, pre-COVID

Around October 2019, on separate days, we both came out saying spirit had given this strange image — sitting in front of a screen presenting to a group online — and that we should take our courses online. When lockdown hit, we had three courses ready to go. (Kerry told Phil to build a log cabin studio outside; he resisted, then two months later conceded.) The spirit world had also said, well before 2019, "a spiritual church without walls." Eight years later, that's exactly what we have — a community of spiritual minds with no physical building.

[1:43:57] First steps for developing mediumship

Be open, but be open to discern — there's so much information out there. Use common sense and logic; if it sounds too complicated, it's possibly not the most natural way. Go out and educate yourself to experiences of spirituality and mediumship, don't judge others' ways, and find your own truth — and don't let anyone dictate how it should be or stop you. It's your choice, your decision, your search.

[1:46:28] Closing

(Kebrasca & Amber:) Thank you both for being mentors and teachers to us, and for the standard you set. (Phil & Kerry:) You're a testament to why we do it — and what you're doing with this podcast is another avenue for the spirit world to talk. Thank you. We'll be back next Thursday with another special guest, all the way from New Zealand, now living here in Australia. Happy wife, happy life — see you next week.

#creativetalk podcast — where consciousness meets commerce, with hosts Amber & Kebrasca King.

This article touches on childhood adversity and trauma. It's intended as general information about mediumship, grief, not therapeutic advice. If any of it brings up something heavy for you, please reach out to a qualified professional or someone you trust.